Another animal makes it off the endangered species list, but for how long?

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/02/22/gray-wolf-return.html

No offense, but I don't know of any hunters with enough money to afford a helicopter and I suspect the great majority can't.  As long as they're still protected then hunting shouldn't be allowed, poaching will happen anyways though.

Here's my take on it. There's been many animals who have been (and still are) on the endangered species list long before anyone heard or knew what the term "Global Warming" meant. And poaching has been around for a very long time! Which is why a lot of these animals are on the endangered species list to begin with.  People are also moving out of the cities and taking natural land away from the animals who live there. Which means, we have animals such as cougars and deer running around in our backyards when we never had them before.
I'm very thankful though that the gray wolf has been taken off the list. I hope it stays that way.
They are such beautiful animals and for anyone to pull a rifle on them just sickens me.



Cait, there are many types of hunting excursions that if the person is willing to pay enough, they will take them up in a helicopter and let them "hunt". Depending of course on what they are "hunting".

Responsible hunters won't do that. I know many hunters who would never ever think of hunting from a helicopter, but there have been reports of it.

"Hunting" from helicopters doesn't scare me as much as those that still persist in placing "bounties" on wolf and coyote heads. Those near Kansas and Texas can help me out on this one. When we lived in Kansas in the early 90's, they were giving $100 dollars for every coyote or wolf brought in. They "said" it was because of the damages done to livestock.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have never seen a coyote that could bring down a full grown cow. And most of the calves raised in Kansas are auctioned off for veal. They never leave the chute they are born in.

As for the wolves. The only ones left are in the northern corner of Kansas, well away from the agricultural districts. Even Arkansas isn't as hard on the few coyotes and wolves that remain there. And I have talked to many chicken farmers there who say that they lose more to wild dogs people drop off than to native wolves or coyotes.

The wolf has been maligned in history for generations, and while I am very glad that their numbers have increased enough to take them off the list. I really think it is just going to give those who will always fear our "Furry Friends" a reason to poach even more.



                                                 Tabz

It is happening a lot. Not just in rural areas. The more people move out of towns the more the "natives" are forced to learn to co-exist or perish. Why should they stay away when food and shelter are so plentiful in the cities? The amount of waste that gets thrown out back doors of businesses and restaurants in enough to feed a pack of coyotes for weeks.

They are not the only ones that have found this out though. Other small mammals and forest animals are also being forced to resort to these kinds of behaviors. People laughed at "Over the Hedge". But if any one has ever lived on the edge of a place like this, it is all too real.

We live in the center of Johnstown, Pa. Population over 100,000. Yet we have skunks, raccoons, rabbits, and others. They have nowhere to go that would provide them with the kind of shelter they get from our basement or our trash cans. And honestly we don't grudge them it either. The trash cans are left in the "mud room" until trash day, but we do ( OK, I do lol) occasionally throw something out the door in the snow or early spring to feed the babies.

And before anyone yells at me for enabling, upsetting the natural order, or anything else, I do it because the Witch in me cannot stand by and watch any of the Goddess' creatures starve when we have more than enough. Most of these creatures have never seen a forest and don't know anything else. They could not hunt for food in a wild environment.

On a side note, I am glad that the Island project in Michigan is going well. Hopefully they will stay a healthy pack this time. As for them crossing the ice, if people are that concerned, can't they just take the Coast Guard cutters out and break the ice so that they have no means across?

In the last two years we have seen cougars here. Cougars, in Iowa? That's just wrong! They think they are coming here because of the deer population. In the city that I live in, the oldest cemetery here in town, there's been cougar tracks found and even claw marks found on trees in the area. Because this cemetery is so beautiful and peaceful, a lot of people who live in the area exercise there, running, jogging that sort of thing. There's been reports that some people have actually seen cougars in the area. When the DNR went to check it out, they claimed that they didn't see any tracks or signs of cougars, but warned people to watch their kids while they're out and to also watch their animals. It was a big controversy here for awhile because they had people on the news that saw this big cat with their own eyes, they showed the paw prints and everything. 

As far as what I have around here, I have skunks, raccoons, rabbits, possums. Which we've always had here in every neighborhood in town. But it's funny with the raccoons around here. We have a waste management business who picks up our garbage, instead of the city, so we have these big hard plastic bins. When you put the lid down on them, you can hear them throughout the neighborhood unless you slowly lower the lid.
Well, our raccoons are smart. They know how to get in and out of those garbage cans. One night I was in my living room and heard the garbage can lid open and then in a minute later it closed. I had a good idea what had taken place, so I very slowly and quietly opened the front door, and there sat on top of the garbage can, a big fat raccoon eating a piece of chicken. He just looked at me like it was no big deal and continued to eat his chicken he retrieved. LOL I have to admit, it was so cute! lol Especially since he left no mess around the garbage can!

Moose are very reclusive. So the fact that you have moose running around, is quite alarming. I've been going up to Northern Minnesota since I was around 5 years old and I have never seen a moose. I would love to see one in it's natural habitat.

Oh and I forgot to mention, those who are interested in wolves, check out http://www.wolf.org
It's the International Wolf center in Ely, Minnesota. The pack up there are just beautiful. They also teach the public about wolves and living with them.
And I have a few pics in my profile of some of wolves they had in their pack the last time I was up there.
Oh and they have webcams on that site too! 

LOL. When we lived in northern Michigan,( a small town called Leota, just outside of Harrison, ) if anybody knows where that is The town had a pet deer. Kid you not! His name was Sam. He was an orphan that wandered into town one day. Everybody just kind of took to him. He was welcome in every yard. Most of the people there were "snow birds". They only stayed there for the summer and left for winter. Yet I know of at least a few older couples who intentionally planted cabbages in their yards so that Sam and the other deer would have food for the winter while they were gone. The last time I talked to my stepfather's mother she said that Sam was a full grown 16 pointer who still came into town every spring to say" hi!". She knows it's him because he will still answer to his name when called and  still wears the remnants of a collar the kids gave him a few years ago. She says he is battle scarred but healthy.

I live in the Midwest, so I can give a little bit of insight on this topic.

The only thing that people need to worry about with coyotes is coyotes getting into their chicken coops.  As stated in this thread already, there really is not much they can do with cows and...if I may be brutally and ruthlessly honest here, let us face it: it is plain-out stupidity to keep your chicken coop open and vulnerable in the first place.  There are domesticated dogs that would likely find their way in there, too.  Some domesticated dogs are bred as natural hunters.  So, are we going to start killing those off, too?  I think people would be crying to the ASPCA and the Humane Societies out there in a heartbeat over that. 

But my opinions on the Midwest hunting aside, I am glad that wolves are no longer on the endangered species list.  Since we have fake fur, I really see no point in continuing to hunt them.  And if people use the excuse of hunting to protect livestock, I see a big difference between protecting livestock and actively hunting something.  It is like the difference between defending one's self and assault. 


Sincerely,
ResplendentSeraphim

I agree. 

And...I never heard of that case, but I am glad he finally got arrested for animal abuse.  Ever since the Magnum case (I can post this in another thread if people agree it is okay), there has been a lot of people trying to push for more penalties against animal abuse.  Mind you, this is directed toward more domestic species, but still...




Sincerely,
ResplendentSeraphim

This was back in 1992 or 93. He was a doctor in Salina. I was working at what was then the Sirlion Stockade in Abilene. I believe it is shut down now. I don't know whatever happened in the case. My friend who was working in Salina told me about the arrest. I hope they fried him personally. He wasn't the nicest person I ever waited on.

I think it is good that gray wolves are off the list, but also be a bad thing too. When I was younger, red wolves were been reintroduce back into the wild in a county near where I live in North Carolina. The wolves were starving and one large male left that area to the woods around where I lived at that time. The wolf killing one dog and left another one seriously injured. After that just about everyone was hunting for it.  It is always a chance that this could happen with gray wolves too if they run out of food.

Any of the working class of dogs will do this. It's bred into them. The problem lies in that most farmers don't leave the dogs with the herds at night anymore. Which makes no sense to me as this was 1/2 of their original purpose. The other 1/2 being to corral and drive the herds. Simply spending a few hundred dollars on a couple of good old fashioned sheperds or any other working breed, would save most if not all of this fighting and killing.